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RE: X12 CICA: Is it the future? Does anyone really "model"?
Mike:
In answer to your question: Didn't Gunther or someone in the UBL TC build
one for you guys? I
bet I could build one from the UBL specs with enough time and money.
NO. UBL is created and maintained by EDIFIX from GEFEG. All EDIFIX internal
files are written in XML and viewable with any plain text editor.
EDIFIX also supports UN/CEFACT ATG2 naming and design rules, schema
generation, and soon CICA.
We fully support and endorse international standards. At the same time we
recognize that everyone doesn't use them. Our software supports a wide
variety of national and international standards.
Sylvia Webb
GEFEG US
310-370-3410 - Voice
310-370-5614 - Fax
<http://www.gefeg.com/> www.gefeg.com - Internet
_____
From: Mike Rawlins [mailto:
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 1:42 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] X12 CICA: Is it the future? Does anyone really "model"?
CICA "proprietary"? Get real! Methinks you doth exaggerate! CICA
certainly isn't "proprietary" in the usual sense in which that term is used
in IT. ANSI ASC X12 takes great pains to conform to ANSI rules for
accreditation for open standards development. I'll bet you a cold beer,
Mark, that X12's last audit by ANSI makes anything you've been through with
the OASIS TC look like a day at the beach. If we want to be pejorative,
then "parochial", "provincial", or "hick" could be used in place of
"national" (as opposed to "international"), but "proprietary"? No way!
So what's wrong with black boxes anyway? Yeah, DISA built one for
CICA. Didn't Gunther or someone in the UBL TC build one for you guys? I
bet I could build one from the UBL specs with enough time and money. I
have high regard for your abilities, Mark, and I'll bet that if you read
X12.7 a few more times you could build your own black box for CICA. So,
no, CICA doesn't depend on a black box any more than UBL or UN/CEFACT's XML
development. Don't sue us if we decide to use one rather than hand-code
schemas. Aren't we all supposed to be model-driven now anyway? Like, let
the business analysts focus on concepts, and not worry about code? People
keep telling me this is a good thing ;^)
Regardless of your intent, your comments come across as
brick-throwing. This elusive "convergence" that we all seem to want isn't
aided by exaggeration or misrepresentation. Can we tone it down and just
talk about what our respective organizations are doing without bashing the
other guys? (God, I hate election years! The fallout from this one has
been absolutely poisonous...)
Cheers,
Mike
At 02:37 PM 1/21/2005 -0500, wrote:
>William,
>
>Even more important than the UBL schema themselves is their reliance on
>open standards and their underlying standards based library of ISO
>15000-5 Business Information Entities. Also supporting the UBL BIEs and
>ready for prime time consumption is the UN/CEFACT library of context
>neutral core components and soon to be released expanded library of
>business information entities. UBL's XML Schema Naming and Design Rules
>fully support ISO 15000-5/11179. The main difference between the UBL
>and UN/CEFACT approaches and CICA is that whereas on the one hand CICA
>is proprietary, UBL and UN/CEFACT are using open standards to develop
>their process models, libraries, and XML schema. Whereas CICA requires
>the use of the X12 Black Box, UBL and UN/CEFACT schemas can be created
>by anyone using any tool. Whereas CICA is targeting North America, UBL
>and UN/CEFACT are targeting the rest of the world and are already
>experiencing adoption by public and private sector interests.
>
>Mark
>Mark R. Crawford
>Senior Research Fellow - LMI XML Lead
>W3C Advisory Committee, OASIS, RosettaNet Representative
>Vice Chair - OASIS UBL TC
>Chair - UN/CEFACT XML Syntax Working Group
>Editor - UN/CEFACT Core Components
>
>
>LMI Government Consulting
>2000 Corporate Ridge
>McLean, VA 22102-7805
>703.917.7177 Phone
>703.655.4810 Wireless
>The opportunity to make a difference has never been greater.
>
>www.lmi.org
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William J. Kammerer [mailto:
> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:21 PM
> > To: EDI-L Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] X12 CICA: Is it the future? Does anyone
> > really "mod el"?
> >
> >
> > Thanks. I'm not gonna live forever. So I guess you're
> > saying that if a trading partner and I are willing to play
> > around with XML now, that I have nowhere to go for a usable
> > PO other than UBL. There's the notion of "time to market,"
> > pal. Is the XML e-business standards ship done sailed as far
> > as X12 is concerned?
> >
> > I learned EDI by reading a couple PIDX and VICS books and
> > looking at their examples. I vaguely knew enough about the
> > structure of X12 long before I ever had to tackle X12.5 and
> > X12.6 which described the syntax using BNF. So I guess I
> > don't want to have to read X12.7 and "imagine"
> > what a PO would look like. I want an XML schema or example
> > now. Where are some examples - even if incomplete - of XML
> > messages based on CICA?
> >
> > Thanks in Advance.
> >
> > William J. Kammerer
> > Novannet, LLC.
> > Columbus, OH 43221-3859 . USA
> > +1 (614) 487-0320
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Rawlins" <
> > To: "EDI-L Mailing List" <
> > Sent: Thursday, 20 January, 2005 06:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] X12 CICA: Is it the future? Does anyone
> > really "mod el"?
> >
> >
> >
> > At 05:42 PM 1/20/2005 -0500, William J. Kammerer wrote:
> >
> > >But are the "more definitive descriptions of CICA" available
> > for free?
> >
> > As noted, the reference model may be freely downloaded.
> >
> > >What am I to look for in the catalog at DISA? How much does it cost?
> > >Is this some not-ready-for-prime-time report that's being sold for an
> > >arm-and-a-leg?
> >
> > The approved X12.7 standard appears currently to only be available as
> > part
> > of 005020. I believe it may also be avaliable through other
> > channels. I'll post the details if I find out.
> >
> > >The UBL stuff (documentation and schemas) is available
> > >for *free* at the OASIS site. If I wanted to "do" a purchase order -
> > >today - in XML, assured that the model and schemas conform to ebXML
> > >CCTS
> > >[ISO 15000(-5)] and ISO 11179 , would I have any choice but to use
> > >OASIS' UBL?
> >
> > Sure you would have choices! You could create your own XML PO that
> > complied with those specs. But if you don't want to do that, I'm not
> > aware
> > at this point of any choices other than UBL. I'm sure UN/CEFACT, X12,
> > and
> > perhaps other bodies will be able to present you with other choices
> > eventually.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
> > www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
> > Using XML with Legacy Business Applications (Addison-Wesley, 2003)
> > www.awprofessional.com/titles/0321154940
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject
> > prefix: <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC>
> > Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>.
>Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix:
><SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC>
>Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L
>
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>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
Using XML with Legacy Business Applications (Addison-Wesley, 2003)
www.awprofessional.com/titles/0321154940
.
Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix:
<SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC>
Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L
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