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RE: Re: Amount fields to be empty if they are zero?
FWIW in case anyone still has any doubts. I seem to recall that X12C had
an official request for interpretation sometime in the last couple of years
that asked this very same question. Bill's answers are completely
consistent with our interpretation.
ergo, the supplier is wrong
Cheers,
Mike
At 01:13 PM 5/9/03 -0400, Bill Chessman wrote:
>The great thing about rules is they provide some guidance. The bad thing
>about rules is that they frequently suffer from interpretation. I think
>that the current statement of EDIFACT rules (ISO 9735 V4) is actually pretty
>clear on the distinction between zero and empty. In ISO 9735-1:1998(E)
>(this is the Application level syntax rules), there are two relevant
>passages:
>
>Section 9.1 "Insignificant characters", the first two sentences read: "In
>variable length numeric data elements, leading zeroes shall be suppressed.
>Nevertheless, a single zero before a decimal mark is allowed."
>
>Section 9.2 "Significant zeros", the first two sentences read: "Significant
>zeroes shall not be suppressed. A single zero may be significant, for
>example, to indicate a temperature or tax rate."
>
>In the cases this thread has presented, a single zero (whether used in
>EDIFACT or X12) should be considered significant since we are trying to
>convey a quantity of zero.
>
>So, I'd summarize as follows: If you're trying to convey a zero value,
>putting a value of 0 in a numeric element (be it an X12 Nx or R, or an
>EDIFACT n..x) is in fact well within the syntax of the standards. It is
>completely valid.
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>Best regards,
>Bill Chessman
>Inovis(tm), Inc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew BK [mailto:
>Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 9:58 AM
>To:
>Subject: [EDI-L] Re: Amount fields to be empty if they are zero?
>
>
>Thanks Chris,
>
>I do EDIFACT also. I knew about the suppress leading zeroes and
>trailing blanks, but I wasn't aware of the notion of deleting a zero
>valued numeric field.
>
>In my opinion, that compression rule has to be ignored where a value
>of zero must be specified. If back end software reckoned with that
>rule, would it cause Jan 1, 1970 to be unknown?
>
>I was looking to see if anyone could cite the X12 syntax rules on
>that point (which I sheepishly admit I do not have at hand).
>
>I have to get on a conference call with our supplier and our tech
>support person to sort out their confusion.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Andrew
>
>--- In Chris Johnson <chrisj@e...> wrote:
> > Quoted text is from <b9eokl+stk8@e...>, by Andrew BK
> > <edi_meister@y...>
> >
> > >But this supplier thinks that putting a value of 0 in the numeric
> > >element is against the X12 004010 standard.
> > >
> > >A value specified to be zero is not unknown.
> > >Am I missing something here?
> >
> >
> > I cannot answer your question authoritatively for X12, but you
>have
> > touched on what I regard as a persistent flaw in the EDIFACT
>standard.
> > The compression rules dictate that for variable length fields you
>should
> > compress away leading zeroes and trailing blanks, and that fields
>which
> > are all zero or blank should be suppressed.
> >
> > This leads you into the situation where, for example, a Stock
>Level is a
> > mandatory field, but your actual level is zero. If you follow the
> > compression rules you suppress the data element and then, since it
>is
> > mandatory, the message promptly fails on a dependency violation.
>You
> > cannot win.
> >
> > In the real world converters normally allow a 'No-vanish'
>attribute for
> > a data element which stops the compression at a single blank or
>zero.
> > You are then breaking the compression rules, although I prefer to
>think
> > of it as 'bending' them.
> >
> > You may be missing something, but then I have been missing it as
>well
> > for the last 15 years.
> >
> > I will be very interested to see what the list responses are for
>the X12
> > case you cite.
> >
> > Regards
> > Chris
> >
> > --
> > Chris Johnson mobile:+44 (0)7785 302122
> > EDIMatrix Ltd work: 0845 126 0680 or +44 20 8559 2454
> > fax: +44 (0)20 8559 2497
> > EDI website http://www.edimatrix.co.uk
>
>
>
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---------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
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