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Re: X12 sees the writing on the wall.
I would not make any fast decisions here. I think that:
1. Legacy EDI (X12 and EDIFACT) have achieved a significant place among the
global corporations, investment is done and its hurdles have been passed.
This is equally true for senders and receivers. Incremental volume
increases will happen. (Most analyst forecasts bear that out- although
suggest a growing shift to EDI delivered across the Internet or in an IP
mode.
2. No one is going to rebuild a business process just because it is
intellectually better. It must result in providing access to more business
transactions and do it at a less expensive cost for development and
maintenance. I do believe XML embodies the lower cost opportunity. The
question is the business driver for that change if the current "mechanism"
works and we have spent considerable time getting it to work right between
ourselves as trading partners.
3. That driver will be presented in your lifetime. It is an evolution not a
revolution. There will be no dramatic marketplace shifts. They will happen
around supply chain change or "life events" such as upgrading or changing
ERP's.
4. Consider the following:
-RosettaNet, which uses XML standards has gained considerable traction in
the use of its XML standards. Both Intel and Nokia have declared publicly
that they will no longer support EDI respectively post 2005 and 2006.
-New business applications such as treasury hubs are using XML standards
today, including IFX.
-The ATM industry is near ready to launch down the XML route, using IFX
standards, in its internal processes between devices.
-SWIFT, although it may have experienced a rocky road, will introduce new
XML messaging and that messaging will be accepted into the market
infrastructures that it supports (clearing for different country's systems).
And, it has moved into the corporate to bank space with acceptance of its
messages by RosettaNet (for payments) and consideration being given by other
industry initiative such as Paper & Pulp (I think PapiNet).
5. However, we are confronted with growth in spurts against the incremental
volume additions that will naturally fall into the legacy EDI space. And we
are confronted with over 70 groups developing XML standards. Part of the
reason so many groups (particularly supply chain specific groups) are
developing these standards is a concern over the maintenance of relevance in
the "large style-fully integrated brand" of standards and the number of
implementations, pain of variations, etc.
6. If we use it correctly, XML offers a path. Rather then one big standard
across the world, XML standards need to learn to interoperate to survive.
For example, RosettaNet is going to use a SWIFT payment message and a
RosettaNet remittance advice together. There are techniques to allow
horizontal integration (for example against a payment) AND vertical
integration of that standard with each supply chain standards set. Things
like namespace extension get us there.
This issue is not will XML standards grow increasingly. They will around
the events of supply chain automation using new standards and shift in major
application such as ERP's (that now have XML embedded in them). The issues
are really:
-Understanding that this change will happen in spurts over several years.
There will be no wholesale switch and their will be incremental growth. The
cost of developing and maintaining XML are lower and that will become
meaningful against existing completed investments when a business shift or
change requires something new.
-Interoperability of XML standards, allowing each group to focus on its
expertise and connect the expertise of others into a single package, is
necessary to survival of these standards. Trading partners simply will not
evolve from a single standard to dozens of standards (XML or otherwise).
But., with interoperability and practical business-driven judgment issues
like relevance can be addressed.
Best,
Len Schwartz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bligh" <
To: "Brian Lehrhoff" <
Cc: "EDI-L Mailing List" < "William J. Kammerer"
<
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [EDI-L] X12 sees the writing on the wall.
> Brian,
>
> Yes, I do love my work.
>
> Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lehrhoff" <
> To: "Gary Bligh" <
> Cc: "EDI-L Mailing List" < "William J. Kammerer"
> <
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [EDI-L] X12 sees the writing on the wall.
>
>
> > If you can't hire them, try planting some seeds and growing your own.
> > We did, and you can too.
> >
> > EDI guys just don't get any respect. It's a good thing we love our
work.
> >
> > Gary Bligh wrote:
> >
> > >All,
> > >Perhaps EDI is an old technology, and yes, perhaps translators are
> > >expensive. Yet, EDI is widely known vis-a-via XML and newer
technologies.
> > >
> > >It is just incredibly difficult enough to hire highly-competent EDI
> > >professionals, who understand data entry from source application,
through
> > >business mapping and scenario analysis, coding the translator,
following
> up
> > >with the VAN and inter-connects (if applicable, when no ftp, AS2,
etc.),
> > >confirming successful TP translation and TP user acceptance.
> > >
> > >Where are the inexpensive, talented resources who both under the
business
> > >(ie pharmaceuticals, transportation, etc.) and technology (setup and
> ongoing
> > >support)?
> > >
> > >Please understand that I do like innovation, yet I don't see fortune
500
> > >firms investing in the latest and greatest technologies with excess
> > >capacities and inventories, low capital investment, and weak consumer
> > >demand.
> > >Perhaps after companies experience a noticeable economic turn-around,
> firms
> > >will invest in new data transfer (little edi) technologies. Until then,
> in
> > >my humble opinion, big EDI (x.12 and EDIFACT) will continue to
dominate.
> > >
> > >I have been using GENTRAN:Server for unix for several years now, and am
> very
> > >satisfied with its performance.
> > >
> > >Respectfully submitted,
> > >
> > >Gary Bligh
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "William J. Kammerer" <
> > >To: "EDI-L Mailing List" <
> > >Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:24 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [EDI-L] X12 sees the writing on the wall.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>It will happen in your lifetime, Brian, for sure. EDI's like an old
> > >>friend who's kind of getting slow and tired. And the most exciting
> > >>thing to hit EDI in a good long while, HIPAA, is fast petering out.
> > >>
> > >>I'm not saying EDI is dead. Even though I wouldn't write a life
> > >>insurance policy on Granny, I still wouldn't go out and shoot her.
No,
> > >>EDI will stick around a good long while. But anything new will - or
> > >>should - be done in XML. The mapping and translation can all be done
> > >>with free standard software - albeit GUI-less, for now. Sure, EDI
> > >>translators now include elaborate scheduling systems and whatnot. But
> > >>remember how translators started out 15 years ago? They could do far
> > >>less than the free XML parsers and transform languages available
today,
> > >>but they cost $50,000 on up with onerous annual maintenance fees!
> > >>Let's kick these bad habits. What are we waiting for?
> > >>
> > >>William J. Kammerer
> > >>Novannet, LLC.
> > >>Columbus, US-OH 43221-3859
> > >>+1 (614) 487-0320
> > >>
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "Brian Lehrhoff" <
> > >>To: "William J. Kammerer" <
> > >>Cc: <
> > >>Sent: Tuesday, 15 July, 2003 06:41 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [EDI-L] X12 sees the writing on the wall.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>not in your lifetime, not in mine. or at least not until my last
> > >>mortgage payment is made.
> > >>
> > >>take a look at the swift folks. they already nuked one xml based
> > >>project, and the big-bang conversion to xml in 11/04 has already been
> > >>pushed back six months. the beautiful thing about xml - the freedom of
> > >>structure - gives the networks fits. we've all made a lot of money in
> > >>the last 15 years, and i don't see that trend stopping anytime soon.
> > >>
> > >>don't toss those manuals - sell them on ebay as antiques.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>William J. Kammerer wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>But everybody else is free to cobble up XML schemas and write Perl!
> > >>>Throw away those X12 manuals, now!!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>--
> > >>%%%%%%%%%%%%% cut here %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> > >>Brian Lehrhoff (
> > >>EDI Consultant
> > >>Bank of New York
> > >>201-913-4506
> > >>%%%%%%%%%%%%% cut here %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >>
> > >>Message Identifiers: <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>,
> > >>
> > >>
> > ><OFF-TOPIC>
> > >
> > >
> > >>Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >
> > >Message Identifiers: <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>,
> <OFF-TOPIC>
> > >Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > %%%%%%%%%%%%% cut here %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> > Brian Lehrhoff (
> > EDI Consultant
> > Bank of New York
> > 201-913-4506
> > %%%%%%%%%%%%% cut here %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Message Identifiers: <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>,
<OFF-TOPIC>
> Access the list online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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