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RE: HIPAA: Does use of a qualifier mean validation should be done?

From: "Rachel Foerster" <rachel@...>
Date: Sun Dec 7, 2003  9:03 pm
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] HIPAA: Does use of a qualifier mean validation should be done?
Doug, from a strict X12.6 perspective, you are correct. However, please read
Kepa's comments on this. He said far more clearly that I - and I agree with
his conclusions - that the Code Qualifier of D8 sufficiently qualified the
AN field such that it can be further evaluated.

The issue isn't truly one of whether the value 19999999 is a valid date or
not, but where and when a system will evaluate it, make a determination of
the validity of the data, and then process the business transaction.

While I can be an X12 purist along with the rest of you, one must also
recognize that one can recognize invalid data based on many criteria and
then apply business rules to determine the action to take.

As Kepa so clearly described, the issue is not one of pure X12 syntax
compliance. That's why I inserted the WEDI SNIP Type 1 definition, since it
clearly goes beyond only X12 syntax validation.

Re the date 20031131 - yep, I agree it's not a valid date as well. Thus one
can detect that it is not, and then apply a business rule regarding what if
any action is to be taken as a result of that determination. Or one could
even determine that the field is of little significance to the business
transaction and not even attempt to validate the value at all.

Rachel

Rachel Foerster
Rachel Foerster & Associates, Ltd.
Voice: 847-872-8070
email: <mailto:

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Anderson [mailto: Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 10:34 AM
To: Subject: RE: [EDI-L] HIPAA: Does use of a qualifier mean validation should
be done?


Rachel

I beg to differ.......

While logic tells us that 19999999 is an invalid date, it is not
syntactically incorrect in the AN (string) field in which it was placed. If
DMG02 were a date type data element I would agree with you that there would
be a syntax error, but it is not.

As defined by X12.6 section 3.5.1.4, A string data element is a sequence of
any characters from the basic or extended character sets and contains at
least one non-space character........

As defined by X12.6 section 3.5.1.5, A date data element is used to express
the standard date in either YYMMDD or CCYYMMDD format in which CC is the
first two digits of the calendar year, YY is the last two digits of the
calendar year, MM is the month (01 to 12), and DD is the day in the month
(01 to 31).........

The string 19999999 clearly does not violate the syntax based on 3.5.1.4.

I believe a syntax error is an error based on a violation of X12.6, is that
not correct? That kind of error should generate a 997 back with a reject
indicated in the AK4 segment. Is there a code in data element 723 which you
would return in this case?

That said, I don't disagree that the software should have returned some kind
of an error message. The string is invalid based on the qualifier in DMG01.
It is just not a syntax violation.

Just for kicks, what would happen if someone sent 20031131 in that data
element or a date data element. Would you expect a similar error? That
date is just as invalid as the 19999999 date.

Doug

Doug Anderson
Asst. VP Sales Support
Kleinschmidt Inc.
450 Lake Cook Road
Deerfield, IL 60015
847.405.7457 (office direct)
847.826.3531 (cell)
847.945.4619 (fax)
www.kleinschmidt.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rachel Foerster [mailto: > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 1:17 PM
> To: > Subject: RE: [EDI-L] HIPAA: Does use of a qualifier mean validation
> should be done?
>
>
> Anthony, I don't agree with your conclusion re validation. DMG02 has a
> semantic note in the standard which says that the value is the date of
> birth. Code D8 states that the date is in the format of
> CCYYMMDD. With this
> specificity, it is clearly within the ability of any syntax
> analyzer to
> validate that the values are reasonable for each component of
> the date.
> Clearly 99 is not a valid value for the day nor for the month.
>
> Claredi is correct in classifiying that value of 19999999 as
> invalid at the
> syntax level of the X12 standards.
>
> Rachel Foerster
> Rachel Foerster & Associates, Ltd.
> Voice: 847-872-8070
> email: <mailto: >
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: anthonybeecher [mailto: > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:18 PM
> To: > Subject: [EDI-L] HIPAA: Does use of a qualifier mean
> validation should be
> done?
>
>
> I am trying to classify an error level for a rejected data element,
> DMG02, where DMG01 is "D8" and the data value in DMG02 is "19999999";
> obviously there is no month 99 and no day 99.
>
> Claredi calls it a Level 1 error - against X12 Standard Requirements.
> I disagree with this assessment.
>
> In my mind, the only validation that is required relative to X12
> Syntax Requirements is that the field is type AN and sized from 1 to
> 35 bytes.
>
> From a pure X12 standpoint, does the use of a qualifier imply a
> forced validation of the format of the data element that it
> qualifies?
>
> I guess the possible answers would be:
> 1. no validation is required; only X12 AN and 1-35 applies
> 2. validation is required that 8 numeric values exist
> 3. validation is required that 8 numeric values exist and the
> subportions are expressing proper ranges 1-12 for MM and 1-31 for DD
> 4. If 3 - then leap year rules also apply?
>
> Thanks
> Anthony Beecher
>
>
>
>
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